Purchase and Ownership of a Mini School Bus
(Skoolie)
I have owned a number of buses. The first one was at the prodding of a friend who had driven them for years. He insisted I *needed* one. He was right.
Why You Want a Mini Bus
So, why own a bus instead of a pickup truck? Both can hold large amounts of things. You can put a cap or tonneau top on a pickup and keep things dry. What the bus excels at is letting you walk around inside with a tremendous volume of space that is really ‘indoors’. I can stack things waist high. I can keep things completely dry. When I have my stuff unpacked, I have about a half an RV of interior space. My wife sells things from inside her bus - customers walk on and shop the clothing racks I built into her bus (yes, we have his and hers buses). It doesn’t require a special license and drives like a large van. Plus, they are cheap for what you get.
Things to Consider in Selecting the Type of Bus To Buy
The first major distinction is shuttle bus vs school bus. Shuttle buses are prettier, inside and out. They will have more amenities like cabin A/C and better stereos. They will get better gas mileage since their rear end is geared for higher speed driving. They tend to be much higher mileage and cost more. Their maintenance should be thoroughly considered. School bus maintenance is carefully tracked for DOT. They are usually sold between 100K and 120K miles.
Chassis - All mini school buses are conversions of van chassis. This is important for registration, insurance, and repair. Many body and drive train parts are directly interchangeable with their donor van. Sometimes they are not. This also helps in researching reliability.
Rear axle - Mini school buses come with either single or dual wheel (‘dually’). The duallies tend to be wider, carry more weight, and ride stiffer, especially full. The width can be a problem for some drivers. I prefer the stiffer drive. Duallies may cost more on toll highways.
Size - not all mini buses are created equal. On school buses, count the number of windows. My buses have varied between 20 and 24ft. For my wife’s business, the extra length was important. The width may vary, probably depending on the rear axle. Interior height definitely varies. Some are well below 6’, others more. Of course, this translates into more exterior height that you should be aware of.
Fuel - we have one gas and one diesel. The diesel gets better gas mileage but takes more care. It has two batteries and you need to preheat it before starting. You also have to consider the fuel for winter since cold diesel can gel. I have been told that a good diesel engine will go more miles before problems.
Handicap Lift - My bus has a full lift, rated at 600lbs. I built carts that roll onto the lift. This is very nice but it costs more and you lose some interior space. Tradeoffs.
To make the tradeoffs, you need to know how you will be using it. Is it mostly for camping or hauling? How often will you be loading/unloading? How many miles a year will you drive? Where will you be parking/storing it? What kind of customizing are you thinking about? Thinking this through ahead of time will save you from buying the wrong bus.
There is a wealth of information in the forums on the internet. The best is http://www.skoolie.net/forums/
Some of the Negatives
Of course, it is not all roses. Owning a bus comes with some restrictions.
Parking - You can’t park a dually on a city street and not end up way too far into the road. Indoor parking is just asking for clearance problems. In paid parking and at shows limited to 20’, you end up buying two spots.
Gas Mileage - It sucks. I get 7-8mpg, our diesel gets around 10. We only drive them about 1K miles per year, so that is OK. If you are going to do long distance driving, look at changing the rear end gear ratio.
Repairs - It can be hard to find a good repair shop. There are bus garages everywhere but the town ones won’t do outside repairs. Documentation is questionable since they are conversions. The best answer is to either buy parts from a place that knows buses or bring in your bad part to compare.
Door Clearance - Some of the older buses had dual doors across the back that opened the full width of the passenger compartment. The newer ones have a single 30” door. That can suck for moving furniture.
Overhead Clearance - The interior and exterior heights vary. We have full walking height in both of our buses. Mine has a raised bed with no wheel wells - it makes the bus very high but great for moving stuff around inside.
Parkway Access - This gets questionable. You can definitely register them as non-commercial. Some parkways say ‘non-commercial’ and others say ‘passenger cars only,’ I avoid them all.
Where/How To Buy
It is not that much different from buying a used car. Do your research. You can buy from an independent owner, a used bus dealer, a fleet owner, or auction. Get the maintenance binder, if you can.
Independent Owner - I bought several buses from people - some from a friend, one from a guy who bought it at auction and decided he didn’t want it. You are on your own here. Try Craigslist or a bus forum.
There are used bus dealers. One is Don Brown Bus Sales in Johnstown, NY (https://www.buscrazy.net/). You will pay a premium since they buy them from fleet owners and mark them up, but it will be fully tested by people who know buses and should have some warranty.
Fleet owners, private and school districts, sell off their used buses. This is a practical way to buy since there is no middle-man markup and they can tell you about the bus condition. I can recommend one local fleet (Star and Strand) with the details below.
Auction - you are **so** on your own. Some school districts send all their buses to auction. If they do, try asking at the source garage to see if they can suggest a particular bus that should be in good condition. Bring good cookies or pastry.
I have found that independent buses in good condition go for about $2.5K to $3K. Standard fleet mini buses are about $3K. Handicapped buses are $3-4K, depending on the lift. Shuttles vary wildly. These are just guidelines - they vary a lot based on condition and configuration. YMMV. Really.
Insurance/Registration
At least in New York, you should be able to register your bus as a standard non-commercial vehicle (unless you want commercial plates). You will have to pull out most of the seats, but not too many. You want to have it seat 4-5. Too few, and you are commercial. Too many, you are a bus. I tend to leave the one behind the driver as a catch-all and the first one on the passenger side for passengers. I bring photos of the bus with the seats removed to DMV. The minimum other changes needed to pass inspection: Red top lights changed to amber, removed, or painted black. Side stop signs removed. “School Bus” signs changed. Any district information on the side removed. They don’t want it to be confused with a school bus. One plus, inspection is cheap. You don’t have to pass emissions.
Insurance is tough. I have gotten my buses insured (one as a truck, one as a van) at about $700/yr with collision. This is where it is good to know your insurance rep. They go by VIN number but since it is modified, there is some wiggle room. If your company can’t do it, try Allstate. Geico couldn’t insure them non-commerically (commercial was about $1400/yr). No promises.
Where To Get It Repaired
When I had a smaller gas bus, my auto garage would work on it. My bigger buses won’t fit in their bay. I found one independent bus repair shop (Mulson’s, below) and one truck repair that will do buses (Mabey’s, below) in the Capital District. It can be a problem.
This just in - I have had both my buses worked on by Fitzgerald’s in Troy and was very happy with the results. I will be going back to them.
This seems like a good time to mention that if you don’t use your bus regularly, you should put the batteries on a trickle charger. Since my lighter outlets stay live with the key removed, I charge through there. Also, my lift draws a lot of current. I run the bus while using it.
Customizing
First work should be to get it ready for an inspection. The easiest thing to do with the red lights is to remove the bulbs and paint them. Putting amber lenses on is nicer. There are two different sizes I have found - close but not interchangeable. Buy the same brand you have.
To remove seats, I have found that using an angle grinder and grinding the heads off the bolts from the inside is easiest. Then fill the holes in the bed with latex caulk.
The School Bus signs scrape off, some on the inside, some on the outside. You can remove letters and get a ‘Cool Bus’ or you can remove it all and cut vinyl letter to name your bus. You know you want to.
The side lettering is vinyl. Use a plastic scraper and Goo Gone. And patience.
After that, the options are endless. I like lots of the rings that Harbor Fright sells to give you lashing points on the inside. I did clothing racks with ½” black pipe for my wife’s bus. The ceilings curve, which can be difficult. I used LED strip lighting on her ceiling since it is low power and doesn’t change the headroom. I put two deep cycle batteries, a control panel, and inverter under her left passenger seat. I am going to put my DC power system in the front, to the right of the door. I use XLR connectors for power - they lock, are easy to solder, are cheap, and come in both cable and panel mount. This is the time to hit the internet for ideas.
Contacts
I am Steve Nordhauser. You can email me with questions. I don’t sell buses, I just enjoy them. [email protected]
I recommend Star and Strand in Troy for purchasing. Ask for Little John. Let him know I sent you. He treats everyone well but maybe he will treat you even better if you drop my name.
STAR & STRAND TRANSPORTATION Inc.
360 5th Ave, Troy, NY 12182
(518) 272-8248
Don Brown Bus Sales, Inc.
703 County Hwy 107, Johnstown, NY 12095
(518) 762-7380
Mulson's Garage
174 Main Ave #1, Wynantskill, NY 12198
(518) 283-4545
Mabey’s Truck Service
515 3rd Avenue Extension, Rensselaer, NY 12144
(518) 283-0017
Fitzgerald's Automotive
634 5th Ave, Troy, NY 12182
(518) 237-6274
Why You Want a Mini Bus
So, why own a bus instead of a pickup truck? Both can hold large amounts of things. You can put a cap or tonneau top on a pickup and keep things dry. What the bus excels at is letting you walk around inside with a tremendous volume of space that is really ‘indoors’. I can stack things waist high. I can keep things completely dry. When I have my stuff unpacked, I have about a half an RV of interior space. My wife sells things from inside her bus - customers walk on and shop the clothing racks I built into her bus (yes, we have his and hers buses). It doesn’t require a special license and drives like a large van. Plus, they are cheap for what you get.
Things to Consider in Selecting the Type of Bus To Buy
The first major distinction is shuttle bus vs school bus. Shuttle buses are prettier, inside and out. They will have more amenities like cabin A/C and better stereos. They will get better gas mileage since their rear end is geared for higher speed driving. They tend to be much higher mileage and cost more. Their maintenance should be thoroughly considered. School bus maintenance is carefully tracked for DOT. They are usually sold between 100K and 120K miles.
Chassis - All mini school buses are conversions of van chassis. This is important for registration, insurance, and repair. Many body and drive train parts are directly interchangeable with their donor van. Sometimes they are not. This also helps in researching reliability.
Rear axle - Mini school buses come with either single or dual wheel (‘dually’). The duallies tend to be wider, carry more weight, and ride stiffer, especially full. The width can be a problem for some drivers. I prefer the stiffer drive. Duallies may cost more on toll highways.
Size - not all mini buses are created equal. On school buses, count the number of windows. My buses have varied between 20 and 24ft. For my wife’s business, the extra length was important. The width may vary, probably depending on the rear axle. Interior height definitely varies. Some are well below 6’, others more. Of course, this translates into more exterior height that you should be aware of.
Fuel - we have one gas and one diesel. The diesel gets better gas mileage but takes more care. It has two batteries and you need to preheat it before starting. You also have to consider the fuel for winter since cold diesel can gel. I have been told that a good diesel engine will go more miles before problems.
Handicap Lift - My bus has a full lift, rated at 600lbs. I built carts that roll onto the lift. This is very nice but it costs more and you lose some interior space. Tradeoffs.
To make the tradeoffs, you need to know how you will be using it. Is it mostly for camping or hauling? How often will you be loading/unloading? How many miles a year will you drive? Where will you be parking/storing it? What kind of customizing are you thinking about? Thinking this through ahead of time will save you from buying the wrong bus.
There is a wealth of information in the forums on the internet. The best is http://www.skoolie.net/forums/
Some of the Negatives
Of course, it is not all roses. Owning a bus comes with some restrictions.
Parking - You can’t park a dually on a city street and not end up way too far into the road. Indoor parking is just asking for clearance problems. In paid parking and at shows limited to 20’, you end up buying two spots.
Gas Mileage - It sucks. I get 7-8mpg, our diesel gets around 10. We only drive them about 1K miles per year, so that is OK. If you are going to do long distance driving, look at changing the rear end gear ratio.
Repairs - It can be hard to find a good repair shop. There are bus garages everywhere but the town ones won’t do outside repairs. Documentation is questionable since they are conversions. The best answer is to either buy parts from a place that knows buses or bring in your bad part to compare.
Door Clearance - Some of the older buses had dual doors across the back that opened the full width of the passenger compartment. The newer ones have a single 30” door. That can suck for moving furniture.
Overhead Clearance - The interior and exterior heights vary. We have full walking height in both of our buses. Mine has a raised bed with no wheel wells - it makes the bus very high but great for moving stuff around inside.
Parkway Access - This gets questionable. You can definitely register them as non-commercial. Some parkways say ‘non-commercial’ and others say ‘passenger cars only,’ I avoid them all.
Where/How To Buy
It is not that much different from buying a used car. Do your research. You can buy from an independent owner, a used bus dealer, a fleet owner, or auction. Get the maintenance binder, if you can.
Independent Owner - I bought several buses from people - some from a friend, one from a guy who bought it at auction and decided he didn’t want it. You are on your own here. Try Craigslist or a bus forum.
There are used bus dealers. One is Don Brown Bus Sales in Johnstown, NY (https://www.buscrazy.net/). You will pay a premium since they buy them from fleet owners and mark them up, but it will be fully tested by people who know buses and should have some warranty.
Fleet owners, private and school districts, sell off their used buses. This is a practical way to buy since there is no middle-man markup and they can tell you about the bus condition. I can recommend one local fleet (Star and Strand) with the details below.
Auction - you are **so** on your own. Some school districts send all their buses to auction. If they do, try asking at the source garage to see if they can suggest a particular bus that should be in good condition. Bring good cookies or pastry.
I have found that independent buses in good condition go for about $2.5K to $3K. Standard fleet mini buses are about $3K. Handicapped buses are $3-4K, depending on the lift. Shuttles vary wildly. These are just guidelines - they vary a lot based on condition and configuration. YMMV. Really.
Insurance/Registration
At least in New York, you should be able to register your bus as a standard non-commercial vehicle (unless you want commercial plates). You will have to pull out most of the seats, but not too many. You want to have it seat 4-5. Too few, and you are commercial. Too many, you are a bus. I tend to leave the one behind the driver as a catch-all and the first one on the passenger side for passengers. I bring photos of the bus with the seats removed to DMV. The minimum other changes needed to pass inspection: Red top lights changed to amber, removed, or painted black. Side stop signs removed. “School Bus” signs changed. Any district information on the side removed. They don’t want it to be confused with a school bus. One plus, inspection is cheap. You don’t have to pass emissions.
Insurance is tough. I have gotten my buses insured (one as a truck, one as a van) at about $700/yr with collision. This is where it is good to know your insurance rep. They go by VIN number but since it is modified, there is some wiggle room. If your company can’t do it, try Allstate. Geico couldn’t insure them non-commerically (commercial was about $1400/yr). No promises.
Where To Get It Repaired
When I had a smaller gas bus, my auto garage would work on it. My bigger buses won’t fit in their bay. I found one independent bus repair shop (Mulson’s, below) and one truck repair that will do buses (Mabey’s, below) in the Capital District. It can be a problem.
This just in - I have had both my buses worked on by Fitzgerald’s in Troy and was very happy with the results. I will be going back to them.
This seems like a good time to mention that if you don’t use your bus regularly, you should put the batteries on a trickle charger. Since my lighter outlets stay live with the key removed, I charge through there. Also, my lift draws a lot of current. I run the bus while using it.
Customizing
First work should be to get it ready for an inspection. The easiest thing to do with the red lights is to remove the bulbs and paint them. Putting amber lenses on is nicer. There are two different sizes I have found - close but not interchangeable. Buy the same brand you have.
To remove seats, I have found that using an angle grinder and grinding the heads off the bolts from the inside is easiest. Then fill the holes in the bed with latex caulk.
The School Bus signs scrape off, some on the inside, some on the outside. You can remove letters and get a ‘Cool Bus’ or you can remove it all and cut vinyl letter to name your bus. You know you want to.
The side lettering is vinyl. Use a plastic scraper and Goo Gone. And patience.
After that, the options are endless. I like lots of the rings that Harbor Fright sells to give you lashing points on the inside. I did clothing racks with ½” black pipe for my wife’s bus. The ceilings curve, which can be difficult. I used LED strip lighting on her ceiling since it is low power and doesn’t change the headroom. I put two deep cycle batteries, a control panel, and inverter under her left passenger seat. I am going to put my DC power system in the front, to the right of the door. I use XLR connectors for power - they lock, are easy to solder, are cheap, and come in both cable and panel mount. This is the time to hit the internet for ideas.
Contacts
I am Steve Nordhauser. You can email me with questions. I don’t sell buses, I just enjoy them. [email protected]
I recommend Star and Strand in Troy for purchasing. Ask for Little John. Let him know I sent you. He treats everyone well but maybe he will treat you even better if you drop my name.
STAR & STRAND TRANSPORTATION Inc.
360 5th Ave, Troy, NY 12182
(518) 272-8248
Don Brown Bus Sales, Inc.
703 County Hwy 107, Johnstown, NY 12095
(518) 762-7380
Mulson's Garage
174 Main Ave #1, Wynantskill, NY 12198
(518) 283-4545
Mabey’s Truck Service
515 3rd Avenue Extension, Rensselaer, NY 12144
(518) 283-0017
Fitzgerald's Automotive
634 5th Ave, Troy, NY 12182
(518) 237-6274